Classic Winners - Owners Colours

[Posts: 53Joined: 09 Nov 2009, 20:59]

Re cigarette cards I spent a good while just searching on the internet which was very useful & interesting - then found e-bay !!! so now own a fair few – try to get good quality at cheap prices which is possible.

Have you been on the New York Public “Digital” Library site ? some good stuff on there if you’re bored with football nypl.org/nypdigital ……. Gets you somewhere close and lots of racing related cards are accessible.

You could be right about T Pilkington although a long time lapse between what you’re after and the B&H book - of course as it’s Sir T….. then probable/possible they’ve been passed on through the family.

1933 G Wilson Pink Yellow cap Ogdens Prominent Horses of 1933 God Bless those old smokers


Cheers all

[Posts: 53Joined: 09 Nov 2009, 20:59]

Think we may be barking up the wrong tree with Pilkington. If you look at ………


http://www.tbheritage.com/Portraits/PrincePalatine.html

there’s a picture of Prince Palatine after winning the Gold Cup and it looks like hoops are involved .


on a more positive note though if you “google” ( worldwide not just UK ) the following

lord elveden racing colours you get a result relating to the Guinness Book of Turf Records 2nd edition go have a look at that so close but can’t zoom in however …….

Then “google” Lord Elveden and you’ll see reference to Lord Iveagh who I’m sure you know has Terra Cotta Black seams collar & cuffs with qtd cap

You squint at the picture of Khalkis and we may be there.
Didn'r realeise the link between Elvedon , Iveagh & Guiness. Learn something every day !

Cheers
I.

[Posts: 83Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 21:06]

You are so right! I have learnt a lot about history, politics & world events through my interest in racing history. The people who owned & trained the horses are just as interesting in many cases as our equine heroes.

[Posts: 53Joined: 09 Nov 2009, 20:59]

Am losing the plot re Prince Palatine - knew what they were all along. Shame I spent ages finding classic winning colours only to forget to look at them in this case.

Can't tell you where I found them but ......

French Grey Vermillion hoops Vermillion cap

[Posts: 53Joined: 09 Nov 2009, 20:59]

Right Ivanjica , you said tracing the Comtesse may be tricky. Have found the following out.

Comtesse de la Valdene was born Diana Guest ( sister of Raymond , Sir Ivor etc , Guest).

Subsequently became Mme Allen Manning , found that via google & France-Galop site which gives details of most successful owners , jockeys in their big races.

“googling” Diana guest valdene manning then leads to a return quoting Be My Guest on Wikipedia ( I know it’s not the font of “all” knowledge but it can’t all be made up ) .

That says Diana Guest Manning paid a record price for that colt who subsequently ran in the 1977 Derby with Eddie Hide wearing Yellow Green armlets Green cap.

That agrees with an entry in the 1973 B&H book of colours for Mrs A Manning so I suppose the only doubt/question is was she registered with those back in 1966. She also owned the 1969 Irish Derby winner Prince Regent as C de la V. - can’t find a picture anywhere - yet.

What do you reckon ?

Have been on the Sporting Horse Database you mentioned earlier – great website and I agree that Nonoalco certainly looks like a quartered cap.

For my sins , as well as trying to trace the colours of all the classic winners I’ve also been trying to get a photo/image of them all as well – obviously never going to get a lot of the early ones but amazing how many you can get one way or another. That site helped me with some elusive ones so thanks.

[Posts: 53Joined: 09 Nov 2009, 20:59]

The more you look the more you find ………….

Ogdens Derby Entrants 1929 show a horse owned by Sir Matthew Wilson the owner's colours described on the back as Cerise Bronze cap


I reckon those colours were being used by G Wilson in 1933 for Loaningdale , so my description of pink & yellow was a misinterpretation of what was illustrated.

Apologies.

[Posts: 226Joined: 15 Mar 2010, 00:56]

Crepello

stick with us please - don't know who had a go at you or about what , couldn't find it on this thread which is all I was concerned about.

nice to be in contact with similar minded fans ( or anoraks if you prefer ) good to have something to occupy us with until we are able to draw our pensions at 75 !!

Hear hear. Forums are riddled with morons, this thread is brilliant - and full of measured and informed stuff, you especially Crepello.So do not be put off by idiots please.

Thanks Isinglass - do you own the cards out of interest or fonud them on internet searches - I have found a lot from such searches I must confess.

Glad you concur with the Howell Jackson ones!! I noticed that I am missing T Pilkington and just realised surely that is Thomas Pilkington is it not - ie the red, green stripled sleeves and qtd cap? As in pg 228 of the B&H softback edition???

The Comtesse's silks are gonna prove really elusive!!!!

Enjoying thread guys, good to see some fellow anoraks. Ha!

isinglass.....could you help me? Looking for Mannyboy colours in 80 National if you've got that pull-out!

[Posts: 53Joined: 09 Nov 2009, 20:59]

Venture To Cognac - thank goodness for another excuse to look at yellowing newspapers that I DID know would come in handy sometime.

1980 GN pullout says

Mannyboy owned by Frank Pullen trained by Josh Gifford and ridden by Richard Rowe 40 or 50 to one according to the bookies adverts

presumably traveling like the winner until it fell at the first.

Royal Blue Chocolate slvs striped cap

cheers

[Posts: 226Joined: 15 Mar 2010, 00:56]

I've got all my old pull-outs from that era in the loft somewhere, but would take a serious effort to dig them out, not seen em for years. Hope they're still there! God knows what colour they'll be! Ha!



Thanks mate, very much appreciated.

[Posts: 105Joined: 22 Jun 2010, 00:44]

Think we may be barking up the wrong tree with Pilkington. If you look at ………


http://www.tbheritage.com/Portraits/PrincePalatine.html

there’s a picture of Prince Palatine after winning the Gold Cup and it looks like hoops are involved .


on a more positive note though if you “google” ( worldwide not just UK ) the following

lord elveden racing colours you get a result relating to the Guinness Book of Turf Records 2nd edition go have a look at that so close but can’t zoom in however …….

Then “google” Lord Elveden and you’ll see reference to Lord Iveagh who I’m sure you know has Terra Cotta Black seams collar & cuffs with qtd cap

You squint at the picture of Khalkis and we may be there.
Didn'r realeise the link between Elvedon , Iveagh & Guiness. Learn something every day !

Cheers
I.

That seems reasonable logic Isinglass - Rupert Edward Cecil Lee Guinness, 2nd Earl of Iveagh is the same person as Lord Elvedon. I'll run with that! Thanks

[Posts: 105Joined: 22 Jun 2010, 00:44]

[quote="isinglass"]Right Ivanjica , you said tracing the Comtesse may be tricky. Have found the following out.

Comtesse de la Valdene was born Diana Guest ( sister of Raymond , Sir Ivor etc , Guest).

Subsequently became Mme Allen Manning , found that via google & France-Galop site which gives details of most successful owners , jockeys in their big races.

“googling” Diana guest valdene manning then leads to a return quoting Be My Guest on Wikipedia ( I know it’s not the font of “all” knowledge but it can’t all be made up ) .

That says Diana Guest Manning paid a record price for that colt who subsequently ran in the 1977 Derby with Eddie Hide wearing Yellow Green armlets Green cap.

That agrees with an entry in the 1973 B&H book of colours for Mrs A Manning so I suppose the only doubt/question is was she registered with those back in 1966. She also owned the 1969 Irish Derby winner Prince Regent as C de la V. - can’t find a picture anywhere - yet.

What do you reckon ?
quote]
The B&H book do indeed have the Manning colours as described, however the colours carried by Be My Guest were slightly different - Yellow, Green hooped sleevs, green cap yellow hoop.

I guess we will need to dig for a photo of the other horses to be definitive but in the absence of any other proof this seems as solid as you can get.

I wonder was the B&H book simply wrong or did she register new colours prior to Be My Guest running in 1977?

[Posts: 105Joined: 22 Jun 2010, 00:44]

The more you look the more you find ………….

Ogdens Derby Entrants 1929 show a horse owned by Sir Matthew Wilson the owner's colours described on the back as Cerise Bronze cap


I reckon those colours were being used by G Wilson in 1933 for Loaningdale , so my description of pink & yellow was a misinterpretation of what was illustrated.

Apologies.

No worries isinglass - thanks for reducing the outstanding eclipse list by another two.

By my reckoning I now still require:
1906 - L Neumann
1907 - W B Purefoy
1913 - A Belmont
1948 - Sir A Butt


Thanks Again,

[Posts: 53Joined: 09 Nov 2009, 20:59]

Hi Ivanjica

have a look at what I posted on 24/06/2010 @ 20.10 to see what I could find for the four you still need.

cheers
I.

[Posts: 105Joined: 22 Jun 2010, 00:44]

Hi Ivanjica

have a look at what I posted on 24/06/2010 @ 20.10 to see what I could find for the four you still need.

cheers
I.

Sorry Isinglass, must have got over excited and missed those. Much appreciated - what are "graduated hoops" tho?

A couple of more queries.

- I am guessing that a "belt" means a sash?

- On the subject of your namesake, in some pictures the H McAlmont silks appear to be halves (as opposed to quarters)yet the later D McAlmont silks (eg Mr Jinks 1929 2000 Gns) are scarlet and light blue quarters. Were the two owners a) related and b) have the same silks or was there they actually different?

- Are there really only 5 winners of the stayers Triple crown (Le Moss, Longboat, Double Trigger, Alycidon and Isonomy)

- Any idea what were the colours carried by the great Kincsem??

Cheers

[Posts: 105Joined: 22 Jun 2010, 00:44]

Hi there

Just joined this forum having found this excellent thread.

Like several on here I too am an anorak of colours.

I have loads I am missing so will in time post them here.

Right Royal - White, purple hoops on body, white slvs purple cap.

Just came across a contraditcion to the Right Royal colours. According to the 1970 Directory Of The Turf Mme Couturie's horses carried Black and white diamons, white sleeves, black cap.

Not sure where I sourced the other set I posted - possibly an old race card so I shall dig it out and see what I come up with. Apologies.