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JOCKEY FEES

General discussion about Uk, Irish and International horse racing
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Adrian

Postby Adrian on 27 Sep 2009, 21:10

I think things work out well as they are. The good young jockeys like William Buick, Hayley Turner etc make it on ability - not through cut price riding fees.

There are plenty of chances for the lesser jockeys through the Winter on the all-weather and on Sundays when the bigger names are often riding abroad.

They don't make much as it is if they only ride once a day when they have taken car, fuel, agent's fee, valets fee into consideration - and you can't see the latter two taking a cut. Therefore this system would only result in the big names trying to charge more.

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Craig Braddick

Postby Craig Braddick on 27 Sep 2009, 21:14

In Colorado jockeys set their own fees and it works very well. The hignerr priced ones tend to be more selective of the race they ride in anyway and the younger inexperienced jockeys can get rides and if they get onto a good streak are entirely justified in raising their price.

Capitalism works.

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Nor1

Postby Nor1 on 27 Sep 2009, 22:48

Agree Craig.
Top jocks should be able to charge what they think they are worth. This then might reduce their number of rides, therefore giving the less experienced jocks a chance of more bookings.
Too many give up through lack of rides. KFallon could have been one of them.
I'm not saying I think jockeys should be paid less but the experienced ones should set their own rates.

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Craig Braddick

Postby Craig Braddick on 27 Sep 2009, 23:28

Nor1 wrote:Agree Craig.
Top jocks should be able to charge what they think they are worth. This then might reduce their number of rides, therefore giving the less experienced jocks a chance of more bookings.
Too many give up through lack of rides. KFallon could have been one of them.
I'm not saying I think jockeys should be paid less but the experienced ones should set their own rates.


Hi Nor1!

I think you touch on a point that is very important. Capitalism works in this sense but we also need to make sure the jockeys are paid a decent minimum as a standard for the risks they take.

Craig

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robert99

Postby robert99 on 28 Sep 2009, 00:44

The riding fee is not the total payment package.
There are win/place percentages, stable retainers and gifts on top.
The top jockeys share most of the latter.

Capitalism only works if it is highly regulated so that those at the bottom are not regularly exploited as has happened time after time in the past.
Stable staff is just one example.

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Nor1

Postby Nor1 on 28 Sep 2009, 01:15

Yes, robert99, capitalism has to be firmly regulated and stable staff are exploited but hopefully not as badly now as in the past.
However, this does not take away the principle of a minimum riding fee set at the present level, coupled with the top jockeys being able to determine their own fees.
Trainers are not required to charge the same rate as every other trainer.

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robert99

Postby robert99 on 28 Sep 2009, 01:33

As I wrote, top jockeys are already able to increase their earnings based on success and to negotiate their own increased fees. It is the owner who pays. The riding fee is in effect a minimum payment via Wetherbys for simply riding the horse in a race. The top jockeys and their agents use their pull to get onto horses with a winning chance and leave the rest for others. As has been pointed out, riding at two meetings for a top jockey in demand might capture 12 fees per day with a free helicopter ride - for a lesser light one or 2 fees per day a long wait and home in a horse box.
If the riding fee is not guaranteed to a level then up and coming jockeys will be even worse off.

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Nor1

Postby Nor1 on 28 Sep 2009, 02:20

robert99
If the riding fee is not guaranteed to a level then up and coming jockeys will be even worse off.

Even worse off than what? I did say the minimum riding fee would have to be kept to the present level and obviously be increased to maintain the value of it.
Surely if the top jocks earned more in riding fees they would not need to travel to say a Kempton evening meeting. This is not going to earn them much extra in winnings with the value of most of the races they have there.

How do you explain the different levels of training fees?

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Adrian

Postby Adrian on 28 Sep 2009, 02:26

With the notable exception of Frankie I think most jockeys would travel to as many meetings as possible - you mention Kempton evening meetings - regardless of how much they could charge per ride. It is not just riding fees that motivate them. It is wanting to ride winners both to keep themselves high up the tables, to keep in with their owners/trainers and of course to earn their percentages. If they think they are going to ride a winner at an evening meeting then you'll see them rushing off no matter how much they have already earned that afternoon.
Last edited by Adrian on 28 Sep 2009, 02:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Adrian

Postby Adrian on 28 Sep 2009, 02:32

With regard to training fees this is based on what they think owners will pay to keep their yard full of horses and also what overheads they have with regards to their staff to horse ratio, quality of feed/bedding, cost of owning/running yard etc. Of course the most successful trainers will charge the most but they are often paying the best wages as well - it is a vicious circle.

Interestingly, in UK all trainers/stable staff receive the same percentage of prizemoney as arranged through Weatherbys.

In most other countries - notably America - the racing clubs pay all prizemoney (having deducted the jockey's fees/percentages) to the owner. The trainer then has invoice the owners for his percentage and that of his staff. When British trainers win money over there I usually suggest they invoice their owners at the British percentage rates but it can cause a bit of confusion with newbie owners when that bill comes through the letterbox.

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Nor1

Postby Nor1 on 28 Sep 2009, 02:51

Adrian

Would or could owners pay the extra for top jockeys to ride their horses for a 2K race round Kempton?

Does the percentage of wins/rides and total prize money not indicate how good a jockey is?

Should a jockey table be altered to the amount of prize money won, similar to the trainer table?

Is life all about rushing around like rats to race meetings day and night?

Why are jockeys not allowed to value, and price, their skills?

As I've already said, trainers charge different fees, and the prices paid for horses at the sales vary too.

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Adrian

Postby Adrian on 28 Sep 2009, 14:10

Of course prizemoney is important to jockeys because it affects how much they earn as their percentage. However I still believe that, within reason, if the stables they regularly ride for want them to ride in smaller races then they will go for it.

If say Ryan Moore started charging more for his rides he may get away with it but generally they just want to ride winners and wouldn't want to miss out for the sake of a few quid.

Of course if they go off to ride internationally then they charge expenses and usually a guaranteed lump sum but that wouldn't be normal here although of course in the bigger races some jockeys may get rewarded with nominations to the horse when it retires etc.

Some jockeys get retainers but even this is becoming a thing of the past - certainly in terms of large cash sums.

I think all jockeys think that riding winners - be they the Derby or a seller - takes the same amount of effort and therefore the ones I've talked to like the system where the amount of races they win is reflected in the championship and not prizemoney - which can be skewed these days by sales races etc.

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yeats

Postby yeats on 28 Sep 2009, 14:31

Think Adrain has got this pretty much spot on, this idea was originally put forward by Josh Apiafi with every jockey getting at least the current riding fee and some getting more on top. It's just greed, jockeys already get a healthy percentage of the prize money on top of their fee.
In fact with ever decreasing prize money and lots of 2 grand races there could be a case for reducing the riding fee for some races but of course this will never happen.

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