Classic Winners - Owners Colours

[Posts: 199Joined: 08 Nov 2010, 12:03]

CONTINUED

SEA BIRD (US)
Jean Ternynck
Ch h 62 Dan Cupid (US) - Sicalade (GB)
GREEN, BLACK CAP
(E. Pollet, Chantilly, Fr)

1964 Maisons-Laffitte (Fr) Criterium de Maison-Laffitte
1965 Longchamp (Fr) Prix Greffulhe
1965 Longchamp (Fr) Prix Lupin
1965 Epsom (Eng) English Derby
1965 St Cloud (Fr) Grand Prix de St Cloud
1965 Longchamp (Fr) Prix de L'Arc de Triomphe


MATCH II (FR)
Francois Dupre
Dk b h 58 Tantieme (Fr) - Reliance (Fr)
GREY, PINK CAP
(Francois Mathet, Chantilly, Fr)

1961 Longchamp (Fr) Prix Noailles
1961 Longchamp (Fr) Prix Royal-Oak
1962 St Cloud (Fr) Prix Boiard
1962 Ascot (Eng) King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stks
1962 St Cloud (Fr) Grand Prix de St Cloud
1962 Laurel (US) Washington DC International


KELSO (US)
Bohemia Stable (Mrs Allaire du Pont)
Br g 57 Your Host (US) - Maid Of Flight (US)
GREY, YELLOW BALL, COLLAR, CUFFS and CAP
(Carl Hanford, Belmont, US)

1960 Aqueduct (US) Jockey Club Gold Cup
1960 Hawthorne (US) Hawthorne Gold Cup Hcp
1961 Aqueduct (US) Brooklyn Hcp
1961 Aqueduct (US) Suburban Hcp
1961 Aqueduct (US) Metropolitan Hcp
1961 Saratoga (US) Whitney Hcp
1961 Aqueduct (US) Jockey Club Gold Cup
1961 Belmont Park (US) Woodward Stks
1962 Aqueduct (US) Woodward Stks
1962 Belmont Park (US) Jockey Club Gold Cup
1963 Aqueduct (US) Suburban Hcp
1963 Saratoga (US) Whitney Hcp
1963 Aqueduct (US) Woodward Stks
1963 Aqueduct (US) Jockey Club Gold Cup
1964 Aqueduct (US) Jockey Club Gold Cup
1965 Saratoga (US) Whitney Hcp


BALLYMOSS (GB)
Mr John McShain
Ch h 54 Mossborough - Indian Call
WHITE, RED 'B' front and back, RED STRIPED SLEEVES with BLACK BAND, RED CAP
(M.V. O'Brien, Tipperary, Ire)

1957 Sandown (Eng) Eclipse Stks
1957 Curragh (Ire) Irish Derby
1957 Doncaster (Eng) English St Leger
1958 Epsom (Eng) Coronation Cup
1958 Ascot (Eng) King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stks
1958 Longchamp (Fr) Prix de L'Arc de Triomphe


SWAPS (US)
Rex Ellsworth
Ch h 52 Khaled - Iron Reward
RED, BLACK TRIANGLE front & back, RED and BLACK CAP
(Mesh Tenney, US)

1955 Chuchill Downs (US) Kentucky Derby
1955 Hollywood Park (US) Californian Stks
1955 Washington Park (US) American Derby
1956 Hollywood Park (US) American Hcp
1956 Hollywood Park (US) Hollywood Gold Cup
1956 Washington Park (US) Washington Park Hcp
1956 Gulfstream Park (US) Broward Hcp
1956 Hollywood Park (US) Sunset Hcp
1956 Hollywood Park (US) Argonaut Hcp
1956 Hollywood Park (US) Inglewood Hcp


SEABISCUIT (US)
Charles S. Howard
B h 33 Hard Tack (US) - Swing On (US)
RED, WHITE 'H' in TRIANGLE, WHITE SLEEVES, RED and WHITE CAP
(Tom Smith, US)

1936 Detroit (US) Governor's Hcp
1936 Detroit (US) Hendrie Hcp
1936 Empire City (US) Scarsdale Hcp
1936 Bay Meadows (US) Bay Bridge Hcp
1936 Bay Meadows (US) World's Fair Hcp
1937 Santa Anita (US) San Juan Capistrano Hcp
1937 Tanforan (US) Marchbank Hcp
1937 Bay Meadows (US) Bay Meadows Hcp
1937 Aqueduct (US) Brooklyn Hcp
1937 Empire City (US) Butler Hcp
1937 Empire City (US) Yonkers Hcp
1937 Suffolk Downs (US) Massachusets Hcp
1937 Jamaica (US) Continental Hcp
1937 Pimlico (US) Riggs Hcp
1938 Agua Caliente (US) Agua Caliente Hcp
1938 Bay Meadows (US) Bay Meadows Hcp
1938 Havre de Grace (US) Havre de Grace Hcp
1938 Pimlico (US) Pimlico Special
1940 Santa Anita (US) San Antonio Hcp
1940 Santa Anita (US) Santa Anita Hcp

[Posts: 199Joined: 08 Nov 2010, 12:03]

Ribot race card King George at Ascot. Wouldn't mind buying this little piece of history.


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RIBOT-Rare-King-G ... 2eb66cb30c

[Posts: 600Joined: 22 Jun 2010, 00:44]

great work slewman. yes the Ribot card would be nice but I am afraid well beyond my budget!

I have the 1981 Epsom Derby programme which I thought would be worth a bit but it only goes for about £40 on ebay - I suppose I could try getting it signed and that would up the ante but I would only sell it if I was desperate anyway.

[Posts: 11Joined: 22 Jul 2011, 21:12]

Slewman, Ivanjica et al. Tremendous thread guys. There's tons of top class info spread throughout the 33 pages, but it's hard not to lose your bearings as you trawl through, so any chance of a recap?!
I've copied and pasted as best as I can to get a list of French Derby winners and have now run it through my colours generator to create a PDF - http://www.eneconsulting.be/pdf/FrenchDerbyWinners.pdf

Would love to do the same for other big races - presumably you covered the Derby, English Guineas etc. way back - so can you give all of your fans a resumé?

One philosophical question I hope you can help with is the meaning of the general term "tartan". Many racing colours state precisely which tartan (Graham/Gordon/Blackwatch etc.) but can you advise which tartan should be used when only tartan (as for French Derby winner in 1863) is specified?

Cheers!

[Posts: 155Joined: 09 Nov 2009, 20:59]

Hi ENE , welcome - that PDF certainly cheered up my Saturday morning.

Pretty sure a recap will be forthcoming soon for you ( the PDF is a pretty good tool to bribe us with I think )

as for the "tartan" question , if I've found any colours that specifically mention the tartan used , I'd quote it - for the one you mention , all I went with was evidence of an old painting by Henry Hall which will be googleable ( !!! ) I'm sure. It's one of those tartans that just looks like a very dark green from a distance - bit like Circus Plume in the 1984 Oaks ( McAlpine tartan in that case )

have managed to get the missing Kentucky Derby ones from a very helpful person at Churchill Downs - got the info by return of e-mail - great service. Will post them separately.

cheers
I.

PS google images henry hall la toucques and follow a picture from liveauctioneers site to eventually be able to get an enlarged picture

[Posts: 155Joined: 09 Nov 2009, 20:59]

As mentioned ,

Missing Kentucky Derby ones :-

1884 BUCHANAN William Cottrill red white sash

1893 LOOKOUT Cushing & Orth blue gold stars blue cap

1894 CHANT Leigh & Rose blue white slvs ( spot on Ivanjica)


1897 TYPHOON II JC Cahn orange blue hoop red cap

1900 LIEUT GIBSON Charles H Smith purple

1901 HIS EMINENCE Frank B Van Meter red white slvs with blue hoops red white & blue cap

1902 ALAN-A-DALE Thomas C McDowell white black sash white cap with black hoop

1903 JUDGE HIMES Charles R Ellison yellow black slvs with white bars purple cap

1904 ELWOOD Mrs CE Durnell green with white straps, collar, cuffs & cap

1907 PINK STAR J Hal Woodford pink rose slvs white cap

1908 STONE STREET CE & JW Hamilton orange blue braces black slvs blue cap

1909 WINTERGREEN Jerome B Respess purple white hoop slvs & cap

1911 MERIDIAN Richard F Carman white blue sash & hoops on slvs blue cap

1912 WORTH Henry C Hallenbeck black white sash & bars on sleeves black & white cap

1913 DONERAIL Thomas P Hayes green red tobacco leaf on back red cap

1917 OMAR KHAYYAM Billings & Johnson blue with gold sleeves, sash and cap

Also got the following :- BS ( Belmont ) PS ( Preakness )

P S 1873 SURVIVOR John F Chamberlain white red spots & cap

P S 1874 CULPEPPER Hugh Gaffney green & white hoops red cap

B S 1875 CALVIN Henry P McGrath green orange sash

P S 1875 TOM OCHILTREE John F Chamberlain white red spots & cap

B S 1885 TYRANT James Ben Ali Haggin orange blue slvs & cap

P S 1897 PAUL KAUVAR Thomas P Hayes green red tobacco leaf on back red cap

P S 1901 THE PARADER Richard T Wilson Jr gold green chevrons on body green cuffs & cap

P S 1910 LAYMINSTER EB Cassett red white & blue hoops blue cap

B S 1915 THE FINN Henry C Hallenbeck black white sash & bars on sleeves black & white cap

P S 1925 COVENTRY Gifford A Cochran green gold hoops green cap

B S 1952 ONE COUNT Mrs Walter Jeffords pink yellow hoops on body


Cheers
I.

[Posts: 11Joined: 22 Jul 2011, 21:12]

Isinglass, thanks for the positive feedback on the French Derby PDF. Encouraged, I have boldly gone to the other side of the globe and tried the Kentucky Derby!

http://www.eneconsulting.be/pdf/KentuckyDerby.pdf

Previous posts on this site about US terminology helped greatly but still some things to decipher - are (shoulder) straps equivalent to epaulettes? Where and how big is a circle on a sleeve?
And of course the sunbursts, golden eagles, "star" on Super Saver's colours etc are not so easy and so are omitted for now.

Please give me any feedback you may have on accuracy and authenticity!

[Posts: 199Joined: 08 Nov 2010, 12:03]

Welcome ENE
Your last posting has had plenty of us pondering these questions. To help I have attached some links to help you. As far as shoulder straps are concerned years ago in the US they use to be in laymans terms braces and a circle is of course a hollow circle while a disc is a large thick 'spot'. Welcome to the thread.

WIN STAR FARM SILKS
http://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Super_Saver

RISING SUN SILKS
http://www.horseracingnation.com/person/Earle_I_Mack

[Posts: 199Joined: 08 Nov 2010, 12:03]

Here is a sunburst. The silks example is Navy Blue, Blue C in red sunburst.

http://www.thoroughbredinternet.com/new ... l?Id=17212

[Posts: 600Joined: 22 Jun 2010, 00:44]

1981 KINGS LAKE Mrs Jean-Pierre Binet dark green black hooped slvs & cap

Hi Isinglass,

Just a quick query re: the Binet silks.

In the 1979 Derby card they are listed as dark green, black hoop and sleeves, dark green cap black hoop.

Any idea what source you version comes from and why the discrepancy?

Many thanks in advance

[Posts: 199Joined: 08 Nov 2010, 12:03]

I'll throw a spanner into the works. I have a UK Telegraph race card for the 81 Arc which Gold River won and the colours for King's Lake, owned by Mr J.P. Binet were DARK GREEN, BLACK SLEEVES. I

[Posts: 199Joined: 08 Nov 2010, 12:03]

Correction to 1908 Kentucky Derby winner's colours STONE STREET
BLUE, WHITE SASH, RED CAP
And here's the proof.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1907-CHURCHILL-DOWN ... 20bb56108e

[Posts: 155Joined: 09 Nov 2009, 20:59]

Hi All

Ivanjica , I concur with the colours in the 1979 Derby race card and the photo evidence of the finish confirms those colours - ( have also seen a painting of Troy at the start and in the background Dickens Hill is carrying those you describe ).

I got the hooped sleeves and cap version from the Daily Express and Sun ’79 Derby pullout - as they were wrong in both publications wonder how the error occurred ; maybe her “Irish” set ?

Anyway , also have a newspaper clipping of the ’78 Arc in which Jean Pierre owned Frere Basile - dark green black & green halved slvs green cap

So I reckon I need to change :-

1981 Irish 1000 Arctique Royale ( J-P Binet ) halved slvs version
1981 Irish 2000 Kings Lake ( Mrs J-P ) black hoop black slvs version
1979 Irish 2000 Dickens Hill ( Mrs J-P ) as above

If anyone has the video review of 1981 , that might be worth a viewing.

Cheers

I.