Who is your typical racing fan? (a survey, if I may)

[Posts: 12581Joined: 22 Dec 2007, 19:24]

There's far too much racing and too many racecourses. It's overkill. One course from each region in England. South-West, South-East, West-Midlands, East Midlands, Yorkshire (two). Exempt the North, Wales and Scotland, so at least 6 to go.

I can never understand why so many racing fans, including some very senior members of this forum, could possibly advocate closing racecourses.

why would any genuine race fan want to lose a racecourse if they claim to love the sport for its own sake, rather than just as a means of betting?

I can see that there is probably too much racing, especially on the all-weather, but as long as a racecourse is viable and can continue to survive through local revenue-raising initiatives, non-racing activities and the minimum of outside subsidy, I would like to see them survive.

I am baffled as to why some racing fans are so keen to wield the axe.

I agree that we have to face economic realities in a double-dip recession but I would certainly not advocate closing courses as a deliberate policy. If it's a very sad and unavoidable reality that a course cannot make ends meet and, despite every effort, is forced to close, then I suppose we have to accept that. But I wouldn't want closure to be imposed on any course as a policy or as a way of cutting down on the fixture list.

I admit sentiment and nostalgia are no substitute for hard-faced business and economic realities but I hope all of the current racecourses survive.

I think you've answered your own questions there CP.
Been many people writing on this thread about there being "too much racing". If all fixture cuts can be made without any racecourses axed then all well and good. However, I very much doubt if it can be done; even with racourses taking fewer meetings which (I agree with Drone) is good for turf management... For all racecourses to be profitable they presumably need a certain amount of fixtures. Therefore, to keep all the other racecourses financially healthy it is (imo) necessary to close the most uneconomic in each region.

I suggested closing one course in each region (two in Yorkshire) precisely because I don't want to see racegoers without a local(ish) track to go to.

Perhaps if Crvill's excellent idea about getting bookmakers to step in for the lower grades works, they could save the courses under my axe.

However, you only have to look at tomorrows racing in Britain to see how many class 6 races there are. 17 out of 36 races. That's quite a lot of meetings per year scrapped. Is there going to be enough racing to go around all 60 existing courses?

I'd love a rececourse every 5 miles. Bring back Stockbridge! But is it viable?

[Posts: 978Joined: 20 Sep 2011, 16:52]

I think you've answered your own questions there CP.
Been many people writing on this thread about there being "too much racing". If all fixture cuts can be made without any racecourses axed then all well and good. However, I very much doubt if it can be done; even with racecourses taking fewer meetings

The argument for keeping racecourses open is certainly on shaky ground if courses don't have enough fixtures to make them viable.
Sentimental fools like me have got to face up to that. Even I would say that there's a very good argument for cutting all-weather racing, especially in the summer, because the concept was originally devised, no doubt, to compensate for abandoned winter jumps meetings and not much more than that.
Why it has been allowed to spread like wildfire to virtually every day throughout the year is a mystery to me, apart from the old chestnut of courses like Lingfield, Southwell and Wolverhampton saying they need all these meetings to stay viable. All-weather racing has totally taken over and makes for a lot of very unattractive fixtures indeed.
I certainly groan at the number of all-weather meetings and would certainly not shed too many tears about a severe pruning of those fixtures.
I wouldn't like to see jumps meetings cut, however. Jumps racing is what the tradition of the sport is all about, in my book, and I would hate to see any jumps courses closing.
Cut the number of all-weather fixtures, by all means and even some of the Flat fixtures.
I would prefer to see fixtures cut, rather than courses closed, but I see the logic in the point that, if some courses lose too many fixtures, they face becoming uneconomic.
But I suppose that would bring me back to the point of trying to keep all racecourses open by helping them to diversify, through increased use of conferences, non-racing activities, exhibitions, wedding fairs and receptions, caravans etc.
I know many courses do a lot of this anyway. I would just like to see courses survive by whatever means.
They are going to have to increase non-racing use even more and become ever more versatile rather than just relying on racing.

[Posts: 7355Joined: 31 May 2004, 16:52Location: Ubiquitous]

We need go back only 50 years and there were several other racecourses, in addition to the blessed 60, that presumably paid their way with a fixture list a third of what is now

Wasn't it the case, though, that a fair number of those which did close in the 1950s / 1960s - along with a smattering which didn't close - didn't really pay their way, (over-)relying instead on Levy and the like? I'm sure a re-read of A Long Time Gone would confirm to me that cessation of Levy funding proved instantly fatal to a number of smaller venues - the Rothburys of this world, perhaps.

Conversely, Yarmouth and - as an independent perhaps more notably - Hexham haven't been torpedoed by a reduction of getting on for 50% in their Levy funding. Taken collectively, maybe our surviving racecourses are slightly more robust entities nowadays with sufficient other, non-Rules racing income streams to prop them up. It'll be particularly fascinating to see whether Hexham's proposed wind turbine proves as commercially viable as the executive at the Yarridge Heights venue anticipates.

gc

[Posts: 7355Joined: 31 May 2004, 16:52Location: Ubiquitous]

Why it has been allowed to spread like wildfire to virtually every day throughout the year is a mystery to me,

Because for artificial surface racing to spread, it merely needs the intransigence of non-artificial surface racing courses to let it. Lingfield, Wolverhampton, Southwell and Kempton are presumably simply bidding for whatever cheap-to-secure slots on (mostly, but not all) workaday racedays become available, and either turn out to be sole bidders or outbid whatever turf Flat or jumps courses stake a less strenuous claim for them.

Little point in blaming these courses for mopping up slots, if given absolute or near carte blanche to do so; ditto (to turn things round briefly) the three jumps courses that will race on the middle Sunday of July once again this summer.

gc

[Posts: 3711Joined: 19 Nov 2002, 14:40Location: Fife]

We need go back only 50 years and there were several other racecourses, in addition to the blessed 60, that presumably paid their way with a fixture list a third of what is now

Wasn't it the case, though, that a fair number of those which did close in the 1950s / 1960s - along with a smattering which didn't close - didn't really pay their way, (over-)relying instead on Levy and the like? I'm sure a re-read of A Long Time Gone would confirm to me that cessation of Levy funding proved instantly fatal to a number of smaller venues - the Rothburys of this world, perhaps.

gc

In less commercially days there wasn't the pressure on courses to contribute to the levy.

The likes of Beaufort Hunt and Rothbury held only one or two days racing per year. Buckfastleigh held six days racing covering spring and late summer and Woore held no more than half a dozen days racing a year. Once pressure came for sport funding via the levy then these courses had to prove they were viable and they couldn't. I don't think Bogside held many fixtures per year, and it's location didn't do it any favours.

There was still over-capacity and the courses that went were either those with outdated facilities, particualrly Lewes which apparently had archaic services. The likes of Hurst Park, Manchester and Birmingham succumbed because they were in built up areas and there was more money in building on them than running a racecourse. Not quite the case for Manchester, but it was clearly more viable as student accomodation and playing fields.

Cartmel had to increase their fixture list at the time to justify their existence. I suspect Perth Hunt, as was then, operated on the minimum number of fixtures they could get away with, and Fakenham was pretty much the same.

Rob

[Posts: 446Joined: 23 Nov 2007, 14:10]

Age
47
Gender
male
Location (area/type)
midlands
Occupation / Class
professional / some
Political views
hmm
Relationship status
married
How often do you go racing?
most weeks + flat weekday feativals
Favourite racecourse(s)?
curragh, newmarket july
How would you improve the racegoing experience?
segregation of drinking and spectating
What initially got you into racing?
supplier took me to york for a freebie one day, won first race, hooked!
Which other sports to you watch?
none
Flat or Jumps?
both but prefer flat
Favourite horse(s) of all time?
denman
Racing hero(s)?
cant think of any
Do you gamble? (if so to what extent, if not why not)
yes, nearly every race when I'm at a racecourse, for fun
What are your views on promotion of the sport?
it's pretty poor, promotion seems to concentrate on everything about the raceday experience except the horses racing
What are your views on animal welfare?
despise animal cruelty
How would you improve the sport in general?
copyright racecard data and charge users a fee, bookies and tote
Finally, is racing bent?
handicaps are yes
Anything else?
the horse is the star!

[Posts: 372Joined: 26 Feb 2011, 00:03Location: Stroud]

Age: 26

Gender: Male

Location: Gloucestershire

Occupation: Self Employed

Political: Conservative

Relationship status: Single

How often do you go racing? Very rarely (twice a year)

Favourite Courses: York, Haydock

How would you improve race going experience: Make the interpretation of form more simplified for the beginner. To encourage new people to continue going to the races.

What initially got you into racing? My dad, when he once informed me that it is possible to predict winners.

Which other sport do you watch: none


Flat or Jumps: Flat, I can't stand jump racing.

Favourite Horse of all time: Ruffian ( the historical legends over modern day champions)

Racing Hero: Timmy Murphy

Do you gamble: Oh yes. Varies, between 1-10 times per week

What are you views on promotion of the sport:
Make a Dick Francis book into a major Hollywood film directed by Tarintino!

What are your views on animal welfare:

That in general the welfare in racing is very good indeed. That anti's have far too much power. That animals should be treated fairly, however no one had any right to ban fox hunting. That before these anti's get stuck into country sports, perhaps they should watch the news from time to time.

Racing Bent:
Anything with money involved is open to corruption.

Anything else:

That Betfair/Bookies in the future pays the course to run a book on their races, and do away with the on course book maker. What right do they have to tell me who I can and can't bet with, if I felt like a day at the races. They are obsolete. The on course book maker needs to bring more to the table if they wish to survive in a fast moving market.

[Posts: 13Joined: 11 Dec 2008, 10:42]

Age 43
Gender Male
Location (area/type) Devon
Occupation / Class Musician / Selling Plater
Political views Strictly Jedi - no more, no less.
Relationship status Married
How often do you go racing? 10-15 times a year
Favourite racecourse(s)? Chepstow & Exeter for jumps and I do love the occasional visit to Windsor.
How would you improve the racegoing experience? Cheaper entrance fees, clear and concise "help" in the racecard for the first timer.
What initially got you into racing? Love of all things equine
Which other sports to you watch? If it's competetive, I'll watch it.
Flat or Jumps? Initially flat, the fulcrum is at it's balancing point. Perhaps 3 or 4 years down the line it will be tilting on the jump side.
Favourite horse(s) of all time? Zimbali and The Tattling.
Racing hero(s)? Don't do heros, but I have a huge admiration for many, especially the journey jocks that travel anywhere and everywhere for one ride on a 33/1 chance and the owners who constantly plough their hard earned into very little hopers.
Do you gamble? (if so to what extent, if not why not) Far too frequently, but it's cheaper than most other hobbies.
What are your views on promotion of the sport? Is their a concerted effort to promote the sport? If so it has sadly passed me by.
What are your views on animal welfare? Many charities are involved in the rehab of ex racers, and I love the idea that someone suggested that a "fee" from the entrance price to a course should be given toward ex racers. My concern is those that don't quite make the grade to run at all. I like to think that these are found suitable alternatives, but I have no idea what the reality really is.
How would you improve the sport in general? Nothing I can add here - I work for far less than RFC per hour and they're experts, right?
Finally, is racing bent? Not bent, more akin to a spiral perhaps?
Anything else? Yeah, plenty, but even an insomniac needs to have a lie down once in a while.

[Posts: 732Joined: 09 Jan 2011, 14:48]

Hope nobody minds me bumping this thread for those that may have missed it over the summer.

[Posts: 785Joined: 18 May 2009, 14:37]

Age enough
Gender Male
Location (area/type) SW london
Occupation / Class Self employed finance and very classy
Political views economic right of centre, socially very liberal
Relationship status With her indoors
How often do you go racing? 2/3 times a month
Favourite racecourse(s)? Sandown, Kempton, Cheltenham Goodwood
How would you improve the racegoing experience? Cheaper entry decent food (Pret concessions say)
What initially got you into racing? Watching in pub and the national...early 20s
Which other sports to you watch? Cricket mostly Some football
Flat or Jumps? Jumps more so
Favourite horse(s) of all time? Dessie and Kauto
Racing hero(s)? Paul nichols. A truly great trainer who makes great efforts to communicate and can maintain a top horse at top level unlike any other. Steve Cauthen as a fantastic jocke
Do you gamble? (if so to what extent, if not why not) A bit but smallish amounts
What are your views on promotion of the sport? RUK should be free to air. That would draw in more punters. Never underestimate free exposure
What are your views on animal welfare? No hard opinions
How would you improve the sport in general? Hard one. if it could soften its image of being for snobs and yobs that might help. But how?
Finally, is racing bent? Not really
Anything else? will think about that

[Posts: 327Joined: 18 Feb 2010, 14:08]

Age :41

Gender : MALE
Location (area/type) : LIVERSEDGE W YORKS (urban)
Occupation / Class : FINANCIAL CONTROLLER/COMPANY SECRETARY / Working
Political views : They're all corrupt or Gay.
Relationship status : Married.
How often do you go racing? : Not enough. Cheltenham Festival at least 3 days, plus 3 or 4 other times per year.
Favourite racecourse(s)? Cheltenham and York.
How would you improve the racegoing experience? Better/Cheaper Catering. The bar prices at the Festival increase way above inflation each year.
What initially got you into racing? Reading the Newspapers while on rainy caravan holiday.
Which other sports to you watch? Football, Cricket and Darts.
Flat or Jumps? Jumps, but regaining Flat interest due to the champions of recent years.
Favourite horse(s) of all time? Frankel, Kauto Star, Wayward Lad, Viking Flagship, Moscow Flyer, Big Bucks.
Racing hero(s)? Michael Dickinson of yesteryear, Henry Cecil.
Do you gamble? (if so to what extent, if not why not) Yes, quite alot at the moment, with a degree of success.
What are your views on promotion of the sport? There are so many competitors for the leisure pound it is a thankless task. I couldnt think of any better initiatives that havent been tried already.
What are your views on animal welfare? The horses are bred to race - they are very well looked after. Accidents do happen, it's a fact. Do the do-gooders ban humans from driving cars?

How would you improve the sport in general? Improve field sizes in conditions races. It is annoying with all the bleating about prize money when you get four runner races for five/six figure prizes.
Finally, is racing bent? Not 'bent' but there's lots of gaining advantage within the rules. Just as with taxes - theres a subtle difference between 'avoidance' and 'evasion'.
Anything else?

[Posts: 785Joined: 18 May 2009, 14:37]

He can't be that much of a hero if you don't even bother to capitalize his surname, or indeed to spell it correctly.

Forget the medication? Do you routinely get wound up by typos? If so...

As for mudslingin i just said that there is a stroy apparently cmoing out. No judgemnt maid

[Posts: 348Joined: 01 Jan 1970, 01:00]

Median age of contributers on this thread is 43.

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