Classic Winners - Owners Colours

[Posts: 155Joined: 09 Nov 2009, 20:59]

Hello All , am hoping there are a few racing historians out there who may be able to help me - failing that "keen racing anoraks" are fine by me.
A while ago , in a quiet moment , I had the daft idea to try and trace the colours carried by the winners of all the classics. Thought I'd be able to sort out the past 30/35 years and then hit a brick wall and give up. Darn the internet though !!! - now need only 23 owners to finish so am now loathe to stop. Can anyone help or give clues to the following please ? If a horse won more than one classic have only included it once - more than enough to read anyway.

Oaks 1897 Limasol 2nd Baron Hindlip
2000 1898 Disraeli Wallace Johnstone
Oaks 1898 Airs and Graces W. T. Jones
Derby 1907 Orby Richard Croker
Oaks 1909 Perola William Cooper
Oaks 1921 Love in IdlenessJoseph Watson
1000 1929 Taj Mah Simon Guthmann
St Leger1934 Windsor Lad Martin H. Benson
1000 1940 Godiva 2nd Viscount Rothermere
Derby 1947 Pearl Diver Baron Geoffroy de Waldner
Oaks 1947 Imprudence Mrs Pierre Corbiere
1000 1949 Musidora Norman Donaldson
St Leger1949 Ridge Wood Geoffrey Smith
1000 1951 Belle of All Henry Tufton
2000 1951 Ki Ming Ley On
2000 1952 Thunderhead II Eugène Constant
Oaks 1952 Frieze Alexander Keith
St Leger1953 Premonition Wilfred Wyatt
Oaks 1962 Monade George Goulandris
1000 1963 Hula Dancer Gertrude Widener
Oaks 1965 Long Look James Cox Brady, Jr.
2000 1966 Kashmir II P. Butler
1000 1975 Nocturnal Spree Mrs D. O'Kelly

Thanks already to Gerald and AP for comments/help.

[Posts: 604Joined: 07 Aug 2008, 21:52Location: ENFIELD]

Hello All , am hoping there are a few racing historians out there who may be able to help me - failing that "keen racing anoraks" are fine by me.
A while ago , in a quiet moment , I had the daft idea to try and trace the colours carried by the winners of all the classics. Thought I'd be able to sort out the past 30/35 years and then hit a brick wall and give up. Darn the internet though !!! - now need only 23 owners to finish so am now loathe to stop. Can anyone help or give clues to the following please ? If a horse won more than one classic have only included it once - more than enough to read anyway.

Oaks 1897 Limasol 2nd Baron Hindlip
2000 1898 Disraeli Wallace Johnstone
Oaks 1898 Airs and Graces W. T. Jones
Derby 1907 Orby Richard Croker
Oaks 1909 Perola William Cooper
Oaks 1921 Love in IdlenessJoseph Watson
1000 1929 Taj Mah Simon Guthmann
St Leger1934 Windsor Lad Martin H. Benson
1000 1940 Godiva 2nd Viscount Rothermere
Derby 1947 Pearl Diver Baron Geoffroy de Waldner
Oaks 1947 Imprudence Mrs Pierre Corbiere
1000 1949 Musidora Norman Donaldson
St Leger1949 Ridge Wood Geoffrey Smith
1000 1951 Belle of All Henry Tufton
2000 1951 Ki Ming Ley On
2000 1952 Thunderhead II Eugène Constant
Oaks 1952 Frieze Alexander Keith
St Leger1953 Premonition Wilfred Wyatt
Oaks 1962 Monade George Goulandris
1000 1963 Hula Dancer Gertrude Widener
Oaks 1965 Long Look James Cox Brady, Jr.
2000 1966 Kashmir II P. Butler
1000 1975 Nocturnal Spree Mrs D. O'Kelly

Thanks already to Gerald and AP for comments/help.

Are you going to publish your list sometime. I am sure us anoraks would be fascinated by it. And having done that how about going on to the National.

[Posts: 155Joined: 09 Nov 2009, 20:59]

I must confess I hadn't given any thought about what to do with what I managed to find , probably because I never thought I'd get this far. Apologies for the term "anorak" , I must certainly be one! Thanks for suggesting I look at another big race ( !! ) , think I need a rest from google etc to be honest.

[Posts: 263Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 21:06]

The only one I can help you with now is: Baron Waldner; White with black hoop on body.

[Posts: 155Joined: 09 Nov 2009, 20:59]

thanks Crepello for taking the time to find that one .

much appreciated

[Posts: 4505Joined: 05 Dec 2008, 01:34Location: Ashford]

Accidentally came across a mirror-image picture of Windsor Lad whilst I was doing something else. Don't know whether it is the Derby-winning or the St Leger winning colours though.

light sash (yellow??), different light sleeves, quartered cap.

http://www.horseracinghistory.co.uk/hrh ... ge?id=1383

[Posts: 155Joined: 09 Nov 2009, 20:59]

Hi Gerald , thanks for still being in your thoughts. I reckon that's after the Derby when Windsor Lad was still owned by the Maharaja of Rajpipla ( are there any Maharaja's still around ? ) - lilac/mauve cream sash & quartered cap

On the britishpathe.com site ther's footage of the 1934 Leger but the colours look darker and different , albeit with a quartered cap.

Have discovered that old editions of Copes Racegoers Encyclopedia detail some owners colours so are following that lead now.

regards

[Posts: 4505Joined: 05 Dec 2008, 01:34Location: Ashford]

I've just been thinking, racecloths used to ordered by the owners' name, didn't they? So it would be unlikely to be Benson if it is carrying 7.


Cope's is only £3 or so. I was thinking it might be 50 times that. Might get one for myself for Christmas.

[Posts: 263Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 21:06]

That's where I found the colours for you Isinglass. I have a lot of them, two have sections on colours, but I could only find Baron Waldner's. I will re look.
They did do an annual over a long period of time, but it would be a real needle in a haystack job.
Where have you been looking? I think there was a publication that listed them in the 1970s.
I will keep digging for you; fascinating.

[Posts: 155Joined: 09 Nov 2009, 20:59]

Evening Crepello

I have a copy of the Benson & Hedges Book of Racing Colours that was published in 1973 and that's helped - saw it advertised in Pacemaker magazine I think when I was a kid - £10 new then was beyond a Christmas present so had to wait 35 years and pay £40 - still , worth it. Try "googling" Raciana colours ( the web , not just uk ) and on an archive site you get colours from the 1700's to late 1890's - nearly cried with joy when I stumbled across that site.

Looking at cigarette cards on the iternet/ebay has helped as well as just random searches on the net.

Fascinating is one word for this - slightly obsessive are two others I'm thinking. Still , keeps me off the streets !!

cheers

[Posts: 8Joined: 23 Nov 2009, 19:50]

Good Evening. Info courtesy of the 1951 Cope's annual. 1951 1000gns winner Belle of All owner Henry Tufton. presumably Mr H H S Tufton - Colours Light Blue, Scarlet striped sleeves, light blue cap, although the photograph of this horse winning as a two year old show the colours as hooped sleeves not striped. More news as I wade through my books. Cheers

[Posts: 8Joined: 23 Nov 2009, 19:50]

I have found two more.....

Norman Donaldson (1949 1000gns) - Black and Pink Stripes, Black Sleeves and a White Cap.

Geoffrey Smith (1949 St Leger) - Peacock Blue, White Facings and Yellow Sleeves. Description does not mention the cap so I presume it will be Peacock Blue.

Cheers and best of luck with your search.

[Posts: 263Joined: 22 Apr 2009, 21:06]

The Pathe news site is great. There is some wonderful footage of horses & training establishments as well as races. Particularly one one The Horse which shows arabian stallions at the Crabbet Stud & goes on to show Blue Peter at Mentmore. Also one of Cecil Boyd-Rochford's string, Tulyar, Horse of the Century & good colour footage of stallions at the Irish National Stud in the early 1960s. Recommended