There Can Be Only 1

[Posts: 1861Joined: 25 Jul 2011, 05:04]

Timeform after more years than most of us would care to remember have rated Frankel the best of all time. By the end of this week will Timeform have 2 horses above Sea Bird II if the brilliant Black Caviar were to win by 7 or 8 lengths?

But which horse to your mind is/was the greatest racehorse the world has ever seen.

Forget breeders the trip and just vote for the horse you think impressed you and the world the most and is/was best at his or her's job

It surely lies between 4 horses in Black Caviar, Frankel, Secretariat and Sea Bird II but if you believe the honour should go to another feel free to name it.


Frankel (foaled February 11th 2008 in Great Britain) is a thoroughbred racehorse bred by Juddmonte Farms, trained by Sir Henry Cecil and owned by Prince Khalid Abdulla. Named after the renowned and late American trainer Bobby Frankel, Frankel is unbeaten in eleven races and is officially rated as the best racehorse in the world. [2] After his win in the Queen Elizabeth II Stakes at Ascot in October 2011, Frankel was given a rating of 143 by Timeform, the highest mark awarded by the organisation in over forty years and their fourth highest of all time behind Sea Bird, Brigadier Gerard and Tudor Minstrel. [3] In June 2012, following his win in the Queen Anne Stakes at Royal Ascot, Timeform raised his rating to 147, making him the highest-rated horse in the organisation's history.

Perhaps best known for his win in the 2000 Guineas at Newmarket in April 2011, a performance which has been described as "one of the greatest displays on a British racecourse", [4] British bloodstock agency McKeever Bloodstock has suggested that Frankel has a valuation of £100 million, an estimate which may be "conservative

Sea Bird II Sea Bird had his preparatory race for the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe in the Grand Prix de Saint-Cloud, which he won, easing down, by two and a half lengths. In the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe, he faced a very strong field, including Irish Derby winner Meadow Court, Preakness winner Tom Rolfe, French Derby (Prix Du Jockey Club) winner Reliance, Prix de Diane winner Blabla and Russian Derby winner Anilin. Starting at odds of 6/5, Sea Bird won easily, despite veering across the track with jockey Pat Glennon patting him down the neck in the final 100 yards, by six lengths (though photographs of the finish show it to have been closer to four and a half lengths) from Reliance. Five lengths further back in third was Diatome, who would go on to win the Washington, D.C. International;fourth place went to Free Ride; fifth was the Soviet runner Anilin, and sixth was Tom Rolfe.

Black CaviarBlack Caviar (foaled 18 August 2006) is an undefeated Australian Thoroughbred racehorse (across 21 races), considered to be the best sprinter in the world,[3] having been named WTRR World Champion Sprinter in 2010.[4] On 31 March 2011 Black Caviar was rated one of the top Thoroughbred racehorses in the world (with a 136 rating) for the first quarter of 2011 by Timeform.[5][6] She is trained by leading Melbourne-based trainer Peter Moody, and has been ridden by Luke Nolen in all her starts apart from her first two runs and in the Patinack Farm Classic, where Ben Melham rode her while Nolen was suspended.She is now in her 4th season having raced at 2,3,4 and 5.

SecretariatOnly four horses competed against Secretariat for the June 9, 1973, running of the Belmont Stakes, including Sham, who had finished second in both the Derby and Preakness, along with three other horses thought to have little chance by the bettors: Twice A Prince, My Gallant, and Private Smiles. With so few horses in the race, and with Secretariat expected to win, no "show" bets were taken. Secretariat was sent off as a 1–10 favorite to win as a $2.20 payout on a $2 ticket and paid at 20 cents more – $2.40 – to place.[9] Before a crowd of 67,605, Secretariat and Sham set a fast early pace, opening ten lengths on the rest of the field. After the six-furlong mark, Sham began to tire, ultimately finishing last. Secretariat astonished spectators by continuing the fast pace and opening up a larger and larger margin on the field. Viewers heard the wonder in CBS Television announcer Chic Anderson's voice as he described the horse's pace: "Secretariat is widening now! He is moving like a tremendous machine!"

In the stretch, Secretariat opened a 1/16 mile lead on the rest of the field. At the finish, he won by 31 lengths (breaking the margin-of-victory record set by Triple Crown winner Count Fleet in 1943, who won by 25 lengths), and ran the fastest 1½ miles on dirt in history, 2:24 flat, which broke the stakes' record by more than two seconds.[10][11] This works out to a speed of 37.5 mph for his entire performance. Secretariat's world record still stands, and in fact, no other horse has ever broken 2:25 for 1½ miles on dirt. If the Beyer Speed Figure calculation had been developed during that time, Andrew Beyer calculated that Secretariat would have earned a figure of 139, the highest he has ever assigned.[12] Many[quantify] bettors holding 5,617 winning parimutuel tickets on Secretariat never redeemed them, presumably keeping them as souvenirs (and because they paid only $2.20 on a $2 bet).

Secretariat became the ninth Triple Crown winner in history, and the first in 25 years.

Not a bad lot to be racking your brains on :)

[Posts: 1335Joined: 17 Nov 2009, 01:13Location: Virginia]

[Posts: 2032Joined: 06 Jun 2011, 14:34Location: Bury St Edmunds]

I voted for none of the above based on the simple truth that given over 200 years of racing no one can definitively prove their case. Unfortunately any poll of this nature is a popularity contest. Whilst the readers and contributors to this site are hopefully less media influenced than the average member of the proletariat, the results are still more likely to be bound by the limits of human experience.

[Posts: 21Joined: 10 Jun 2012, 14:23]

Timeform after more years than most of us would care to remember have rated Frankel the best of all time. By the end of this week will Timeform have 2 horses above Sea Bird II if the brilliant Black Caviar were to win by 7 or 8 lengths?

But which horse to your mind is/was the greatest racehorse the world has ever seen.

Forget breeders the trip and just vote for the horse you think impressed you and the world the most and is/was best at his or her's job

It surely lies between 4 horses in Black Caviar, Frankel, Secretariat and Sea Bird II but if you believe the honour should go to another feel free to name it.


Frankel (foaled February 11th 2008 in Great Britain) is a thoroughbred racehorse bred by Juddmonte Farms, trained by Sir Henry Cecil and owned by Prince Khalid Abdulla. Named after the renowned and late American trainer Bobby Frankel, Frankel is unbeaten in eleven races and is officially rated as the best racehorse in the world. [2] After his win in the Queen Elizabeth II Stakes at Ascot in October 2011, Frankel was given a rating of 143 by Timeform, the highest mark awarded by the organisation in over forty years and their fourth highest of all time behind Sea Bird, Brigadier Gerard and Tudor Minstrel. [3] In June 2012, following his win in the Queen Anne Stakes at Royal Ascot, Timeform raised his rating to 147, making him the highest-rated horse in the organisation's history.

Perhaps best known for his win in the 2000 Guineas at Newmarket in April 2011, a performance which has been described as "one of the greatest displays on a British racecourse", [4] British bloodstock agency McKeever Bloodstock has suggested that Frankel has a valuation of £100 million, an estimate which may be "conservative

Sea Bird II Sea Bird had his preparatory race for the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe in the Grand Prix de Saint-Cloud, which he won, easing down, by two and a half lengths. In the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe, he faced a very strong field, including Irish Derby winner Meadow Court, Preakness winner Tom Rolfe, French Derby (Prix Du Jockey Club) winner Reliance, Prix de Diane winner Blabla and Russian Derby winner Anilin. Starting at odds of 6/5, Sea Bird won easily, despite veering across the track with jockey Pat Glennon patting him down the neck in the final 100 yards, by six lengths (though photographs of the finish show it to have been closer to four and a half lengths) from Reliance. Five lengths further back in third was Diatome, who would go on to win the Washington, D.C. International;fourth place went to Free Ride; fifth was the Soviet runner Anilin, and sixth was Tom Rolfe.

Black CaviarBlack Caviar (foaled 18 August 2006) is an undefeated Australian Thoroughbred racehorse (across 21 races), considered to be the best sprinter in the world,[3] having been named WTRR World Champion Sprinter in 2010.[4] On 31 March 2011 Black Caviar was rated one of the top Thoroughbred racehorses in the world (with a 136 rating) for the first quarter of 2011 by Timeform.[5][6] She is trained by leading Melbourne-based trainer Peter Moody, and has been ridden by Luke Nolen in all her starts apart from her first two runs and in the Patinack Farm Classic, where Ben Melham rode her while Nolen was suspended.She is now in her 4th season having raced at 2,3,4 and 5.

SecretariatOnly four horses competed against Secretariat for the June 9, 1973, running of the Belmont Stakes, including Sham, who had finished second in both the Derby and Preakness, along with three other horses thought to have little chance by the bettors: Twice A Prince, My Gallant, and Private Smiles. With so few horses in the race, and with Secretariat expected to win, no "show" bets were taken. Secretariat was sent off as a 1–10 favorite to win as a $2.20 payout on a $2 ticket and paid at 20 cents more – $2.40 – to place.[9] Before a crowd of 67,605, Secretariat and Sham set a fast early pace, opening ten lengths on the rest of the field. After the six-furlong mark, Sham began to tire, ultimately finishing last. Secretariat astonished spectators by continuing the fast pace and opening up a larger and larger margin on the field. Viewers heard the wonder in CBS Television announcer Chic Anderson's voice as he described the horse's pace: "Secretariat is widening now! He is moving like a tremendous machine!"

In the stretch, Secretariat opened a 1/16 mile lead on the rest of the field. At the finish, he won by 31 lengths (breaking the margin-of-victory record set by Triple Crown winner Count Fleet in 1943, who won by 25 lengths), and ran the fastest 1½ miles on dirt in history, 2:24 flat, which broke the stakes' record by more than two seconds.[10][11] This works out to a speed of 37.5 mph for his entire performance. Secretariat's world record still stands, and in fact, no other horse has ever broken 2:25 for 1½ miles on dirt. If the Beyer Speed Figure calculation had been developed during that time, Andrew Beyer calculated that Secretariat would have earned a figure of 139, the highest he has ever assigned.[12] Many[quantify] bettors holding 5,617 winning parimutuel tickets on Secretariat never redeemed them, presumably keeping them as souvenirs (and because they paid only $2.20 on a $2 bet).

Secretariat became the ninth Triple Crown winner in history, and the first in 25 years.

Not a bad lot to be racking your brains on :)

They race Black Caviar to simply win the race not to see how many lengths she can win by. She has never got out of second gear.

[Posts: 4183Joined: 20 Jan 2006, 11:28Location: The Ainsty of York]

'of Timeform time' rather than "of all time" may have been a wiser idea HurdyG as how do any of us have the remotest inkling inkling how good and what rating such as Eclipse, Ormonde and Pretty Polly were and would have been awarded

Anyway it's only a bit of fun and I personally refuse to vote on principle, as for reasons probably best kept to yourself you have neglected to include Brigadier Gerard

[Posts: 2177Joined: 06 Dec 2003, 19:04Location: Luton]

Rubbish thread really ...no offence sir , your selection base is far too narrow

How about best flat horse last 20 years or 50 yrs ..and include , mill reef , the Brig , Shergar , etc , then you may get some response


cheers

Ricky

ps for your present list , my choice would be Secretariat , I have been lucky enough watch both race , there is no doubt in my mind he was the best

[Posts: 1861Joined: 25 Jul 2011, 05:04]

I voted for none of the above based on the simple truth that given over 200 years of racing no one can definitively prove their case. Unfortunately any poll of this nature is a popularity contest. Whilst the readers and contributors to this site are hopefully less media influenced than the average member of the proletariat, the results are still more likely to be bound by the limits of human experience.

Surely you must have an idea which horse you think was best.....every day punters bet they compare horses that have never met and back the one who in their opinion will beat the other.

Today for example So You Think Carlton Housea and Farhh meet with no direct form lines to go on but millions will be bet on opinion.

No one asked anyone to prove anything just give an opinion like you would in any other race/competition.

[Posts: 2032Joined: 06 Jun 2011, 14:34Location: Bury St Edmunds]

In that case I would choose Eclipse because although horse racing may well have thrived from different sources if he had not existed, he has shaped the breed more than any other horse in history.

[Posts: 1861Joined: 25 Jul 2011, 05:04]

[/quote]
They race Black Caviar to simply win the race not to see how many lengths she can win by. She has never got out of second gear.[/quote]

I'm not so sure that will be the case this time.

They have just had Frankel shoved down their throats and instead of cries of Black Caviar the greatest racehorse in the world echoing in their ears it's Frankel the greatest racehorse in the world.

Aussies don't take kindly to being outdone and they will be keen to show what she can really do....I have a feeling we will see something on Friday we will never forget.

[Posts: 1861Joined: 25 Jul 2011, 05:04]

In that case I would choose Eclipse because although horse racing may well have thrived from different sources if he had not existed, he has shaped the breed more than any other horse in history.

Eclipse? I would never have guessed Eclipse, Eclipse

[Posts: 372Joined: 26 Feb 2011, 00:03Location: Stroud]

You are forgetting "Ruffian"

[Posts: 4052Joined: 03 Feb 2006, 11:39Location: Sacramento,CA.]

They say every time she raced she broke the track record!

[Posts: 4052Joined: 03 Feb 2006, 11:39Location: Sacramento,CA.]

We have seen Frankel now we must wait to see Black Caviar.