Cirrus Des Aigles

[Posts: 1503Joined: 30 Oct 2007, 14:08]

I await the outpouring of scorn that connections have ducked Frankel in the Juddmonte.

Surely against the spirit of racing, etc etc blah blah.

If things carry on like this i can see the usual suspects demand Frankel enter the Grand National to "prove" himself.

[Posts: 2266Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 16:22]

Different types of horses aren't they, in the same way that BC and Frankel were a sprinter and a miler?

CDA is a multiple G1 winning horse campaigned over distances from a mile to 13F, on all sorts of going including AW and raced all over the world taking on whoever turned up and is still going at 6.

Frankel is just the best miler of his generation who has won on similar going over the same distance always in his own back yard and will be retired after his next race at 4.

Frankel will soon be in the part of the forum where people wonder if he might have beaten Sea Bird who would have given Dancing Brave a good race, etc.

Tyson vs Ali vs Louis, etc.

[Posts: 1503Joined: 30 Oct 2007, 14:08]

Different types of horses aren't they, in the same way that BC and Frankel were a sprinter and a miler?

CDA is a multiple G1 winning horse campaigned over distances from a mile to 13F, on all sorts of going including AW and raced all over the world taking on whoever turned up and is still going at 6.

Frankel is just the best miler of his generation who has won on similar going over the same distance always in his own back yard and will be retired after his next race at 4.

Frankel will soon be in the part of the forum where people wonder if he might have beaten Sea Bird who would have given Dancing Brave a good race, etc.

Tyson vs Ali vs Louis, etc.

I don't think you could have unintentionally reinforced my post better - can win up to 13f at Group 1 level but doesn't fancy facing Frankel the "miler" over 10.5f.

[Posts: 2266Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 16:22]

Isn't CDA not fit or recovering?

Still, like you say, Frankel won't dodge CDA in the Sheema Classic next March I'm sure, or even in the Arc this year perhaps?

How's the drainage at York, could be ten days of rain leading up to the race?

[Posts: 1503Joined: 30 Oct 2007, 14:08]

Isn't CDA not fit or recovering?

Still, like you say, Frankel won't dodge CDA in the Sheema Classic next March I'm sure, or even in the Arc this year perhaps?

How's the drainage at York, could be ten days of rain leading up to the race?

I stand corrected. I was sure connections had stated that Frankel would be retired this year after a maximum of three more runs between 8f and 10.5f.

Regarding the "not fit / recovering" remark - i suggest you read the trainers interview. No Frankel would mean the french colt would run at York, that much is plain.

[Posts: 1055Joined: 05 Jun 2010, 14:11]

You are correct Peruvian Chief.
Connections are contemplating taking in the French race too before the Champion Stakes, thereby negating another one of sberry's points.
Betting on the International was 1/5 Frankel, 20/1 CDA earlier on, so bit of a mismatch really.

[Posts: 2266Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 16:22]

You're right, Frankels last race will be Ascot, they were teasing about a race in France but that would mean travelling outside of the bubble and if it does rain for ten days solid up to the Juddmonte and the going becomes very soft, would he run there? One or two races tops then he's gone. Shame, but they have to be protected these days. Money and reputation is everything.

Being a one distance horse apart from one last race isn't a bad thing, at least he's cleaned up at a mile in the same way BC cleaned up in sprints - horses are rarely truly champions over multiple distances.

[Posts: 2032Joined: 06 Jun 2011, 14:34Location: Bury St Edmunds]

Given that Cirrus des Aigles is a gelding and therefore there is no stallion value to protect, then the issue of avoiding a clash for that reason is irrelevant. Looking at his race record, he is a horse that shows a tendency to need a run after a break. He has run in lesser races to get him sharp for group 1 contests, it is perfectly logical that there is insufficient time to get him fit enough to do himself justice. There are still plenty of good prizes later in the season. For information purposes the Arc is not open to geldings so he would be ineligible to run in that race.

[Posts: 1609Joined: 11 May 2010, 14:41]

Given that Cirrus des Aigles is a gelding and therefore there is no stallion value to protect, then the issue of avoiding a clash for that reason is irrelevant. Looking at his race record, he is a horse that shows a tendency to need a run after a break. He has run in lesser races to get him sharp for group 1 contests, it is perfectly logical that there is insufficient time to get him fit enough to do himself justice. There are still plenty of good prizes later in the season. For information purposes the Arc is not open to geldings so he would be ineligible to run in that race.

Absolutely agree EF - there is no ducking go on here. Trainer has beem open and up front all the way. A real shame for the race. I just hope one of Nathaniel or SNA turns up now.

Hopefully we will see CDA v Frankel in the Champion.

Sberry not sure what you are going on about but Frankel certainly has NOT won on similar going every time. Look at his form and you will read next to all the 1's soft, good to soft, good, good to firm. They would not mind one bit if it came up soft at York. It only enhances his superiority as I told you it would before the QA.

"One or two races tops" on top of the 12 he has had already!!!

[Posts: 2266Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 16:22]

It was t-i-c EF, BC was avoiding Frankel over 8-10 but Frankel wasn't avoiding BC over 5-6 as he wasn't a sprinter, CDA is avoiding Frankel even though recovering from an injury but Frankel wouldn't be avoiding CDA over 12, as his final race and stud plans have been made.

Maybe the only way to see how good Frankel really is would be to chop them off and campaign him in every race from 7 to 14 all over the world on all surfaces for the next 5 years.

Now that would take some balls, literally, and make him the most respected horse since Seabiscuit and maybe even the richest ever in terms of money won.

[Posts: 445Joined: 23 Nov 2007, 14:10]

Might be an interesting Irish Champions this year if Cirrus, Nathaniel and a good ballydoyle runner turn up. Snow Fairy maybe as well?

[Posts: 2032Joined: 06 Jun 2011, 14:34Location: Bury St Edmunds]

The Irish Champion has long been the strongest race run in Ireland. It tends to attract a smallish but select field. Although I am still compiling the figures I think it will prove to be the highest rated 10f event in Europe this century. The 2008 and 2011 renewals being the weakest in terms of depth.

[Posts: 1503Joined: 30 Oct 2007, 14:08]

Depends how you are working it out - are you using the "pattern" system you explained to me a while ago, average ratings of first 5 home or something similar?

RPR's of winners only leaves the Juddmonte as the best all-age 10f race in Europe.

Regarding the "ducking" issue, I didn't mention breeding. I just simply think they don't think they can win, so they are not running.