Homecoming Queen

[Posts: 5235Joined: 31 Aug 2007, 23:42Location: derby]

Sometimes you can study a race tooo much. Glad someone was on! [it is a nice name, isn't it]

[Posts: 2267Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 16:22]

A cracking run in a fast time considering the going was changed to soft during the afternoon. Faster than Camelot who is supposed to be a superstar.

Where's Blues Brother with his speed ratings for the two guineas races?

[Posts: 9Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 02:13]

Hi all.....

not Blues brother.....but I rated HQ at 142 and the first 4 were Group 2 at least

HQ had won a few races and in particular on soft ground


Camelot just under Group 1st 122....these are my ratings which differ from may others....

I had Starscope as the winner on my ratings.....unlucky

will be interesting to see HQ in soft ground next time


Feel free to comment


Fil

[Posts: 1039Joined: 12 Feb 2011, 15:34]

Extraordinary performance, the way she accelerated again into dip was stunning, this after having blazed the trail from the start.
I've just checked her form, her first six runs last year were really average.
She reminds me of Peeping Fawn, once she started improving she became unstoppable.

I thought last year that they had her wrong. She must have been showing so much speed on the gallops they presumed she was a sprinter, but she was only ever going to show her worth over further.

I loved Peeping Fawn.

Clearly clueless those Coolmore muppets - perhaps you should apply for a position as racing advisor as you make it sound so simple.

I am not even sure Peeping Fawn ran as a two-year-old and then won a succession of races in a row - comparisons are a little premature.

I think you need to go and have a lie down or a weekend at a spa. Relax.
Didn't say they were muppets but trainers get horses wrong all the time, as they admit themselves.

Peeping Fawn did not tun at two but as a three year old was running over a mile in lower grade races, ran a stormer when upped in trip by half a mile for the Oaks ( not the stables first string ) and didn't lose a race after. Becoming a star when previously thought of as a lesser light.
Comparisons are relevant if you don't have a chip on your shoulder

[Posts: 2383Joined: 09 Oct 2007, 20:57]

The problem for punters being that Coolmore were quite happy to see a 25/1 shot ruthlessly exploit the frailties of a short-priced favourite.

What a ridiculous comment.

She (the winner) exposed the frailties of the entire field. Homecoming Queen had, by the sound of it, been performing well on the gallops. Maybe lost nothing in defeat really, there'll be other days for her you'd have to think. She (Maybe) ran a fine race yesterday whatever happens in the future, I'm sure they were delighted with her.

If my comment is ridiculous words don't adequately exist to describe yours. You may as well just stick two fingers up at all punters. Been performing well on the gallops, lost nothing in defeat, connections delighted - just a string of cliches - are you the scriptwriter for Aidan O'Brien? At least try to write something original.

The bottom line is Coolmore didn't care whether they won with a 25/1 or a 13/8 shot - in fact they did everything possible to ensure the 13/8 favourite lost. If you are happy with that fine that's your opinion. The only thing Maybe didn't lose yesterday was value because effectively she didn't have any to begin with. Can you imagine Coolmore being happy if Camelot had been trounced by a 25/1 outsider from the same stable - it just wouldn't happen.

[Posts: 2383Joined: 09 Oct 2007, 20:57]

I think you need to go and have a lie down or a weekend at a spa. Relax.
Didn't say they were muppets but trainers get horses wrong all the time, as they admit themselves.

Peeping Fawn did not tun at two but as a three year old was running over a mile in lower grade races, ran a stormer when upped in trip by half a mile for the Oaks ( not the stables first string ) and didn't lose a race after. Becoming a star when previously thought of as a lesser light.
Comparisons are relevant if you don't have a chip on your shoulder

Your after timing explanation was just a little too simplistic for a horse suddenly finding a massive improvement and at this stage however you want to dress it up there is no comparison between Homecoming Queen and Peeping Fawn. If I have a chip on my shoulder you appear to have a chip shop on yours.

[Posts: 2267Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 16:22]

A perfect example of a TRF thread starting as an innocent expression of appreciation of a great win in a classic which quickly turned into a knocking of the winner and the form/race before falling into a name calling argument.

[Posts: 10789Joined: 10 Feb 2003, 15:43Location: Scotland]

Can you imagine Coolmore being happy if Camelot had been trounced by a 25/1 outsider from the same stable - it just wouldn't happen.

And St Nicholas Abbey, stallion prospect that he is, is turned over by a 66/1 shot from the same stable, right on cue. It DOES happen!!

They aren't machines Stilvi, and even the peerless AOB can't always predict what's going to happen on the racecourse.

in fact they did everything possible to ensure the 13/8 favourite lost

Another completely daft comment. Do you really, honestly think they set out yesterday to get Maybe beat? I'd suggest they went in there with two good horses and that they thought both had a good chance. I'm sure they would have been equally delighted had Maybe won.

[Posts: 6528Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 00:37]

Another completely daft comment. Do you really, honestly think they set out yesterday to get Maybe beat?

Its not as daft as you think Corm! I love to piece a jigsaw puzzle together and my interpretation is this...Honeymoon queen makes her seasonal reappearance in March,she needs it badly and comes on a ton as Aidans usually do,she then beats a very useful filly comfortably in Fire Lily in April that run not only is a superb marker for collateral form through Maybe of all horses but puts her spot on for the 1000gns.Coolmore have her cherry ripe and she runs them ragged,they knew she was better than a pacemaker! Why? because Fire Lily is only beaten 11/2l by Maybe as 2yo's that form alone makes Honeymoon Queen a mere length behind Maybe.Bearing in mind the latter looked massive in the paddock,you would certainly envisage major improvement to come from the run and it will so hindsight itself shows the fitter filly won and the 3rd will improve,the pair were far more closely matched than most of us realised but Coolmore knew who was the better filly on the day for sure! Wool pulled over eyes springs to mind! I dont agree that they set out to get Maybe beat but maybe they set out to win with the winner!Maybe,maybe not! Nah they did!

[Posts: 10789Joined: 10 Feb 2003, 15:43Location: Scotland]

TAPK - I agree they came with a horse (HQ) they thought could win. I was just pointing out that suggesting they set out to get Maybe beat was/is ridiculous. I'm sure either result would have been equally acceptable to them. People are talking like there was only two horses in the race.

Maybe ran a blinder, certainly belied the fact that she wasn't fit. You don't finish third in a Guineas if you're not fit. NOT that she won't improve for it a little bit, but she most certainly wouldn't have been 'fat', however big she looked. (That coming from a man that wasn't within 500 miles of Newmarket, I wasn't even in the same country! Sorry...lol)

[Posts: 6528Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 00:37]

Maybe ran a blinder, certainly belied the fact that she wasn't fit.

You really think Maybe ran a blinder? For a filly clearly Top rated,she never looked like winning at any point and was beaten 10 lengths by a winner ridden positively throughout.
I'll guarantee Aidan mentions how much 'Maybe' has come forward for the run the next time she runs,now had he started her course campaign back in April and had 2 previous outings I'd bet you she would have won yesterday,just so long as Honeymoon Queen made her seasonal debut in the 1000gns itself of course!

[Posts: 10789Joined: 10 Feb 2003, 15:43Location: Scotland]

Of course, the conspiracy theorists main point of argument should be that Coolmore, whose business is stallions, would have had more to gain in that regard by Holy Roman Emperor siring a Guineas winner than having another Galileo star.

TAPK - I agree it's likely Maybe will improve, she'll surely do better over further.

[Posts: 12286Joined: 22 Dec 2007, 19:24]

If Coolmore knew Homecoming Queen was going to win they'd have backed her in to a far shorter price. However, Wading supposed to be second string for the Guineas until this Spring. I'd imagine Homecoming Queen was going better than Wading at home. It would be ridiculous for Coolmore not to try their hardest to win with both of their fillies. Homecoming Queen has run well from the front before, it suits her and suited Coolmore.

Best not to give Homecoming Queen full credit for the 9 lengths winning margin yet. They didn't go a furious pace and kicked from the front. Time was good but not exceptional judged on Racing Post Standard Times. 4.95 secs slower than standard compared to the following race won by a 5 year old rated 102, carrying 9-8 over 6f did a time just 4.03 slower than standard. Homecoming Queen is certainly Group 1 class, but comparrisons with Frankel (on yesterday's performance) are crazy, though she could still improve. Moonstone, Lyric and Discourse ran no sort of race.

It is interesting that first 2 in the 1000 and first 5 home in the 2000 Guineas all had a prep run this season. In last year's 1000 only Blue Bunting of the first 5 home had not had a run. The two behind Frankel in the 2000 also had a run previously. And yet plenty of trainers these days don't think of running beforehand.