Never mind Black Caviar - how about Frankel V Camelot?

[Posts: 3975Joined: 03 Feb 2006, 11:39Location: Sacramento,CA.]

BullShit stirrer,maybe, but there is no room for hypocracy in this business, every dog must hunt somewhere.Nobody is under oath as far as I know.If everybody spoke their mind they would say "I honestly don't know"or more likely "I believe that Frankel may possibly be the best ever but I cannot prove it" and go back to their newspaper.

[Posts: 571Joined: 27 Jul 2011, 18:11]

BullShit stirrer,maybe, but there is no room for hypocracy in this business, every dog must hunt somewhere.Nobody is under oath as far as I know.If everybody spoke their mind they would say "I honestly don't know"or more likely "I believe that Frankel may possibly be the best ever but I cannot prove it" and go back to their newspaper.

Can he not be the best miler ever?

[Posts: 277Joined: 18 Sep 2011, 17:34]

BullShit stirrer,maybe, but there is no room for hypocracy in this business, every dog must hunt somewhere.Nobody is under oath as far as I know.If everybody spoke their mind they would say "I honestly don't know"or more likely "I believe that Frankel may possibly be the best ever but I cannot prove it" and go back to their newspaper.

What illiterate nonsense this is.

Various posters have given fundamentally sound logic and reasoning to your illogical ramblings, to which your retort is basically "I'm allowed to have my opinion". Yes, you are, but such statements do not justify stupidity.

As if speaking your mind, or being different, makes ones opinion more valid or correct.

[Posts: 1610Joined: 11 May 2010, 14:41]

http://link.brightcove.com/services/pla ... 1240879001

The above is a link to the Armchair Jockeys chat on the sporting life website. Some very interesting comments on the "Frankel stepping up in trip" debate from the wonderful Lydia and Super Steve. So much sense talked imo.

[Posts: 6532Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 00:37]

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid935521562001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAAAAnV5Z0~,xyoxShbYDLGuesaGmqdwdtfsl9D0aih2&bctid=1691240879001

The above is a link to the Armchair Jockeys chat on the sporting life website. Some very interesting comments on the "Frankel stepping up in trip" debate from the wonderful Lydia and Super Steve. So much sense talked imo.

No more sense than we speak on here Joni! I thought Lydia was slightly contrary in her comments,She wants to see 'Frankel' step up in trip in order to prove his 'Greatness' as durability is prerequisite to such an accolade,cant fault her there but to suggest the 'Juddmonte' would be somehow Manufactured to suit a clash between 'Camelot' and 'Frankel' seems odd as it would prove a logical challenge for both horses natural progression.I'm pleased though that like all good judges Lydia recognises that 'Frankel' has to step up in trip to be accepted as more than just a Miler!

[Posts: 12292Joined: 22 Dec 2007, 19:24]

BullShit stirrer,maybe, but there is no room for hypocracy in this business, every dog must hunt somewhere.Nobody is under oath as far as I know.If everybody spoke their mind they would say "I honestly don't know"or more likely "I believe that Frankel may possibly be the best ever but I cannot prove it" and go back to their newspaper.

Of course it is all "opinion", but some of us like to explain our opinions.

You criticise both Sir Henry and Frankel for taking on inferior rivals... And yet you come up with a horse who took on inferior rivals most of her life, in races which were not open to all.

Please explain your thinking Andyod. Because at the moment it seems you're criticising Sir Henry / Frankel in thread after thread, just because they are who they are. ie A well spoken English gent and a British racehorse.

[Posts: 1039Joined: 12 Feb 2011, 15:34]

Think they should have stepped Frankel up in trip. Has nothing to prove at a mile, has beaten the usual suspects it faces at Ascot again and it's a ' safe ' entry.

[Posts: 610Joined: 05 Jun 2012, 14:26]

I think we can safely close this thread now. Unless, of course, Camelot is giving twelve length beatings to Excelebration on the gallops LOL

[Posts: 1368Joined: 06 Jul 2007, 11:28]

Camelot has at least won 2 classics, it's not fair to compare them as milers, rather, ask yourself how many greats down the years do you think could have beaten Side Glance and Indomito by 12 lengths?

My argument is that, we will shortly be asked to accept an authority's rating in excess of 145 for Frankel, yet so many of those around that level beat such great fields themselves, the tops in their division. Does Frankel? Was this it?

Visually stunning yes, and it would be absurd not to rate him as being one of the best in generations, but his opposition is continually weak to say the least and his connections seem risk averse in trying him at any other distance despite the rhetoric.
It's almost becoming a myth.

[Posts: 1505Joined: 30 Oct 2007, 14:08]

Why do you feel Excellebration is weak opposition Ugly Mare? Without Frankel around i would argue we would be rating his haul of mile Group 1's as very special.

[Posts: 610Joined: 05 Jun 2012, 14:26]

Camelot has at least won 2 classics, it's not fair to compare them as milers, rather, ask yourself how many greats down the years do you think could have beaten Side Glance and Indomito by 12 lengths?

My argument is that, we will shortly be asked to accept an authority's rating in excess of 145 for Frankel, yet so many of those around that level beat such great fields themselves, the tops in their division. Does Frankel? Was this it?

Visually stunning yes, and it would be absurd not to rate him as being one of the best in generations, but his opposition is continually weak to say the least and his connections seem risk averse in trying him at any other distance despite the rhetoric.
It's almost becoming a myth.

Camelot won an egg and spoon race 2000 guineas, opposition in the Derby was decidedly thin on the ground. He has plenty to prove but could well be up to winning the Arc. Taking on Frankel is a different thing altogether. Henry Cecil has said Frankel will run in the Juddmonte and opined that Frankel may prove better over the extra distance. If Camelot turns up he will be well odds against. Camelot is the myth if there is one.

[Posts: 1610Joined: 11 May 2010, 14:41]

Visually stunning yes, and it would be absurd not to rate him as being one of the best in generations, but his opposition is continually weak to say the least and his connections seem risk averse in trying him at any other distance despite the rhetoric.
It's almost becoming a myth.

This is simply not true UM. Canford Cliffs, Immortal Verse, Dream Ahead, Excelebration, Treasure Beach, Nathaniel. This is not weak opposition.

[Posts: 1368Joined: 06 Jul 2007, 11:28]

Why do you feel Excellebration is weak opposition Ugly Mare? Without Frankel around i would argue we would be rating his haul of mile Group 1's as very special.

... He seems to have regressed if anything since leaving Botti. That wasn't a Gr. 1 horse running today.
Pure conjecture that he would have won those races without Frankel, as others would have shown up and he wouldn't have had it all his own way by any means as shown in the Prix du Moulin struggling to beat old well exposed stalwarts Rio de la Plata, Rajsaman and Dubawi Gold.

I mean, don't you think you've seen a whole host of better milers in your day than Excelebration? come on...